Ah! the Triple?
After ten years of stop and go work, getting severely reamed by parts dealer the world over,
starting the resto twice (at first I gave it to a “specialist” who did nothing in 2 years, before going belly-up), breaking the frame (after it was powdercoated, of course)…
it is finally at the painter’s… and the paint I ordered is WRONG!
Painter is closing shop Friday next week for 3 weeks holidays…
I need also a weld (this Saturday hopefully) and new seals in the petcock or a new petcock.
Odds are I should be riding the bloody thing this summer???!!
or it will probably catch fire when I start it!
Advice to wannabee restorers: never, NEVER start with a Kawasaki Triple restoration!!!
My 400 D took me less than 6 month from start to finish and I ride it everyday…
…and it still has a annoying stutter/blubber at very low throttle openings…
so when you want to give just a bit out of a corner, you have to give a bit too much… not ideal in the rain! Also with throttle closed, going down a slope it will not “zing” down but will shake at every piston stroke.
Time with a dial gauge at 2.3, carb resynched, new motor etc. Bog standard.
When I synched the carbs, it wouldn’t idle with the slides down, even with rubber bellow off, so I had to use the idle stops and screw them in quite a bit… the stumble comes back!
IS there a good way of making sure both carbs are synched and at same height AFTER setting the idle speed?
I used to set the slide height for idle with cable adjusters on top of carbs, but that means no free play… not too good.
Thanks for the input.
EDIT: ANSWERS:
Have you stripped those carbs and given them a good clean out. These carbs work well but every orifice must be clear.
Espescially the pilot jet with your problem.
RDLY:
I had a similar problem until recently and it was the carbs. One was lifting before the other and then falling before the other. It confused the hell outta me.
Anyway, I removed the carb to airbox tubes and without running the engine I listened to the ‘tap’ as the slides bottomed (with the idle screws fully out) One was falling way behind the other but when I adjusted the cable at the top the problem reversed itself!!
In the end I had to change the cable junction and splice in new carb sections as it was this that was the problem.
The bike now runs fine with no surging between 4-5k when cruising or slowing down.
I had set the carbs about 20 times before with no improvement
The correct way to adjust them is:
1. Back off or even remove the tickover screws.
2. Remove the air-box tubes.
3. Open throttle to lift the slides then close throttle and listen for 2 distinct taps.
4. Adjust the carb cable adjuster on the side that taps last. Repeat until they are in time with eachother.
5. Remove the inspection screws (10mm hex) on side of throttle slide bores. Wind the throttle until you see a small pimple appear on each slide through the inspection holes. They should be within a mm of eachother. If not recheck the above.
6. Adjust top cable adjuster to get a few mm slack.
7. Replace the tubes and screws and start the engine. Now adjust the throttle stop (tickover) screws for best idle (comparing the exhaust pressures is a good indicator)
8. Thrash Bike !!!
9. If it’s the same >>>> Thrash Something Else
Spike:
Thanks guys,
yes everything is clean and carbs synched… with the lolly stick/wd40 red nozzle/fingers in the carb trick. They hit the bottom of carbs together with a big CLUNK!
After doing that the bike won’t idle (like slides too low??) and no messing about with the airscrew seems to help. Slides are the correct type (as per Haynes) so I have to use the stop screw to make ‘em higher , right?
This is where it seems to lose synch… back comes the stumble… it’s a really low/almost no opening stumble… like when you shut the throttle coasting downhill. Stumble/bucking, etc .
Some people sugested upping the idle jet as it sounded too lean… but I’m not too sure about that.
Adjusting the airscrews has almost no effect if static, when you drive the bike you feel it. Setting them to 2 turns makes the bike having a hard time returning to idle. and closing them a bit makes the stumble worse.
So should I change my idle jets (27.5 mm were suggested) or should I get my timing (2.3 now) closer to 2.0 BTDC?
ANSWER: Seattle smitty.
Worn, loose-fitting slides can cause blubbering idle. Very common on older bikes with rigidly-mounted Amals and Bings, but could happen to rubber-mounted Mikunis if abrasive dust got past the filters. I have fixed these slides with a baked on moly coating. Order a small can of “Gear-Kote” from KG Industries (Google it). Works good on worn (or new) pistons, rotary valve housings, aluminum-on-aluminum stiction situations, and many other applications. Follow their instructions precisely.
Interesting I might try that.
Well it was a nice and sunny day here in Switzerland, I received my parcel from HVC, so… time to try and cure my 400D ills!
1) the HVC/Motion pro dial gauge and adapter is too long…can’t use it on a 400… you can’t fit the gauge in the adapter in situ, hits the top frame tube… chop about 1cm off, drill tap new stop bolt hole… ready to roll.
This kit would work perfect on a motor out of frame… just not plug and play on that (?) bike.
My question is: in Mark’s excellent guide (under my tools in pic ) it says turn motor in the direction of running, which is counter clockwise (CCW) untill you reach TDC… easy enough and then says to keep turning CCW untill you see the reading you’re looking for (2.3 for me). Seems to me that if you proceed like that you will end setting your timing to 2.3 AFTER TDC and not before? I set my TDC and then went backwards (CW) 2.3mm (or a bit more and then forward to it, to take up play) and set my timing there…
Am I totally backwards thinking? or just not getting it?
EDIT: No you aren’t… most people find TDC and then back quite a way and THEN come back to get proper reading.
Bike seems happier now (just did the LH Cyl which was defo not OK)
At very low throttle opening, the carburation sounds totally confused, it’s as if I was using the kill button… rest of the range is very clean and crispy. There’s a lot of 20 mph (30km) zone in my zone and fines are VERY dissuasive! I need it to behave correctly at the openings.
It also has a long history of bucking when shuting the throttle and letting the engine do the braking…
I’ve tried adjusting the idle screw but it usually ends up with the bike having a hard time returning to the idle (stay at 2000 rpm for a while, unless you let the motor engaged & braking).
Again, advices and hints welcomed!
EDIT: Answer from Martin:
i think you need a larger pilot jet,struggling to return to idle is a symptom of lean jetting.
I am using my rd 400 as daily runner. I’m not quite 100% happy.
It’s been restored motorwise completely last winter.
It ran well for a couple weeks and then probs crept in.
It seems to pot-pot-pot more on the LH side and the exhaust downpipe is also turning blue (there used to be small streak of sludge running down it too, that has stopped)… it also killed a plug one cold morning when i gave some strick from cold. The other pot runs quite happily and has a more metallic sound to it… more like a 2stroke pipe.
PROB N1 Both my plugs look like this:
The external electrode is quite like in the pic, not white but lighter (very light choccy color) the inside electrode also has a ring on top of the same color. Rest of the plug looks rich (safely).
I reset the carbs, synched them (oilpump too, off by a mile) reset points and put fresh plugs later. The syncing didn’t seem to make a lot of difference, but the new plugs did. I’m running B9ES, but am doing a lot of town work and partial throttle.
Advice gents?
Should I change plugs (B8ES?) Retime the whole thing?
Guys, after getting my 400D on the road, I’m on holidays and decided to tackle my (very decent looking) Rd 250 C project. Good looking, good compresh working lights and all…
except I am not getting a spark!
Using my Good daily bike battery (400D top notch and holding charge)
Coils tested (bad one replaced)
Hi-tension leads tested OK (ther’s continuity and i can check the coils through the lead)
Going without plugs or cap at the moment, just trying to get it to spark against the heads.
Fuses checked and replaced as needed
I’ve got power at the points, at the coils (Red/white lead) and at the brown iggy switch wire (this changes as the points open) To get a Voltage reading, I need to use the Batt’s neg pole… getting no readings when using the frame as ground. Still no fat blue spark in sight…
What am I missing???
I also cleaned the tank and the carbs are holding the fuel in… plugs wet… it’s getting thruh… I just need an effing spark to to start her…
EXERPT FROM THE THREAD:
Dead condensors?
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mervin
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Posted: 22/Apr/2007 at 10:40pm
Try running another earth wire from battery to frame sounds like the earth is not grounding very well although the lights etc working maybe worth a try
Merv
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AlexS
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Posted: 23/Apr/2007 at 2:26pm
I would tend to agree with Mervin. It does sound like a bad earth between the battery and the frame. I’m also wondering about the earth connection between the engine and the frame (someone feel free to contradict me but 400′s have rubber mounted engines and so must have an earth cable of some description).
Generally when a condensor fails you can tell by “flicking” the points open with an electrical screwdriver. If you get a very big blue spark at the points then the condensor has failed. It will be very obvious.
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mervin
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Posted: 23/Apr/2007 at 2:56pm
Yes did not think about that rubber mounted engine no ground on enginme
Merv
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spike
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Posted: 25/Apr/2007 at 12:09pm
I fiddled with it again… Not much result…
If I open them (with the cam), the mobile arm is live, the fixed dead, so it’s OK
I don’t get power on both arms of the points when there closed… the fixed one is stil dead…
I gather that’s not normal… Is it?
Otherwise, no spak jumping at the gap when opening points.
Where is supposed to be the engine to frame earth lead. I can always bung up one for test, but would like the bike to stay original.
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RDly
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Posted: 25/Apr/2007 at 2:02pm
There is no earthing point for the engine to frame, although I’ve never heard of one not earthing as the chain and cables can achieve that.
Run a temporary earth from the engine to the frame, as if the engine’s not earthed then you’re not going to get a spark no matter what!
As for the points, the fixed arm is earthed so that will remain dead, also when the points are closed they will remain dead but when open you should have 12 volts on the moving points arms.
I would suggest you disconnect the condensors, they aren’t needed to achieve a spark, they just prevent premature burning of the points surfaces.
If you have 12 volts at the points I would turn my attention towards the coils. Have you got continuity from the orange and grey wires from the points ends to the coil ends?
Try that for now, but earth the engine to the frame first
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RDly
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Posted: 25/Apr/2007 at 2:12pm
Actually I just remembered. The engine earths via the negative/black wire from the stator loom, so that’s a good place to check as you may have a crummy connector somewhere
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spike
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Posted: 26/Apr/2007 at 8:28am
I’m just suddenly thinking I must have an earth because I’m using the crankcase as negative for testing… I am getting a reading on the points… hence it’s earthed!
Still NO SPARK, coils’ primary and secondary windings all test OK, and fuses are good too…
will try disconnecting the points.
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spike
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Posted: 02/May/2007 at 8:20pm
Sorry to bug with that, but it’s annoying…
I disconnected the condensers and started checking the wires from the generator towards the coils (without a battery):
both grey and orange from the points to the coils show continuity,
but the green wires coming from the alt. brushes don’t show anything, no continuity: normal?
are they needed for the ignition system?
the red/white is alive when the the switch is on (with battery), so my kill switch should be ok.
Brown wire (in the headlight) is alive as per Haynes…
Getting non plussed.
Hints?
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mark in sc
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Posted: 02/May/2007 at 8:22pm
green wire gets voltage from regulator to excite the rotor. should see voltage on it, (remove brush) with key on. if not, your regulator is sacked.. or the wiring is.
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spike
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Posted: 04/May/2007 at 8:13am
Hi Mark,
Green wires going to reg show continuity and voltage when key is on…
Is it possible that coils give good readings but are shot?
I mean everything test OK, but I’m not getting a spark… getting double nonplussed
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RDly
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Posted: 04/May/2007 at 9:37am
This is beginning to sound like your coils are goosed, unusual for both to go at the same time!!!
The generator is not required for a spark, only a nicely charged battery is.
I would start again but concentrate on only one side to preserve the battery. Disconnect both grey and orange wires from the points, you don’t need points to get a spark, earthing either one should make a spark at the HT cap.
Sorry I can’t finish at the moment I will be back later :rolleyes:
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RDly
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Posted: 04/May/2007 at 2:47pm
Ok to continue, have you tried removing the orange or grey wire from the coils?
Turn on the ignition and make sure you have battery voltage at the red/white wire to the coils. If possible check this voltage with the wire still connected by pushing your meter probe inside the bullet connector sheath.
Now assuming you have a positive reading, disconnect the orange and grey wires from the points and connect a length of wire to either of the wires from the coils. Now with the ignition on, briefly earth the wire and look for a spark at the end of the HT lead. If you still have no spark then the coil/s are almost certainly duff as all your other checks indicate the rest of the system is fine.
Let us know how you get on? I’ll pop back in later on
KEEF
Still ironing the last small probs of my 400D. I’m getting a small puddle of oil below the LH side of the bike… and no it’s not the clutch pushrod or shift shaft seal!
It is gearbox oil and seems to come from the top… It could also be the 2stroke oiltank overflow but my oil is red and this is clear. What strikes me is i have oil ON TOP of my crankcase…
Can it come out of the tacho cable fixation?? is this a “standard” problem on RD??
It is making a mess and I’m getting tired of cleaning. Suggestions?
EDIT: Turns out it was the oilseal on top of crankcase where the tach cable connects.
Thanks, I didn’t see it…
I take from that topic that having oil spewed from the the tach cable connection on the cases is fairly common? is that really so?
I hate oil (and gas leaks), I clean that motor so well it’s really pi$$ing me off to do it again…just to check if it’s leaking again.:chunks:
Try this thread from the ACRD forum
this might be my next project, not a dent on it, a bit of rust, not even stuck!
Is this the Brigade Blue? It is spunky! Fresh from the Breakers…
I picked this bike for the seat and the motor… I ‘ll soon have a Gold Rd250B with missing jugs and I thought it would be a good idea to have a few spares.
I really like the seatz and how it looks. It’s all shot now, ‘fcourse, but the printing and the using the original mounts, the strips make me think it could be a Yam Accessory. Did these exist? or is it a shop special?
and this might be my next project, not a dent on it, a bit of rust, not even stuck!
Is this the Brigade Blue? It is spunky!
EDIT: It seems it is a Guilliari.
The bike went through MOT here in Switzerland and they couldn’t fault it!
Not bad for a bike that broke a chain 2 weeks earlier! I am now using it everyday.
Gotta say: I REALLY like it! Probably one of the best vintage bike around. It is really up there with my T20, the Kawasaki A1 & the Rz500. Bikes that I will have a hard time to sell
I really like the torque down below and the screaming top end. I might still have some carb and iggy realted probs, but the infamous 3’500k flat spot is really gettin’ on my nerves.
Was it really a “feature” of the bike when new? If so, I am amazed yamaha managed to sell so many RDs. As i said, less-that perfect timing & carbs might make it worse, but everything is set std.
Is the RZ/RDLC rubbers block with cross-tubes the solution?, if yes what jetting do I need?
I can’t afford a speed fine in town, it’s lethal here!
EDIT Answer from johnB from the ACRD Forum:
Standard the mid range stutter /flat spot shouldnt be too bad if the timing & carbs are set up right.The E/LC or powervalve rubbers with the ears cut off & the crossover tube will make it better.No jetting changes needed.6mm reed block spacers also help beef up the mid range a bit.
ps. if you think the standard stutter is bad I don’t think you’d like a bike with expansion pipes/k&n’s!
